Gear loadouts

Kill your comrades. Wholesale
Post Reply
Phoenix49
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 7:01 pm

Gear loadouts

Post by Phoenix49 »

Apart from FOLK's house rules on scopes, I would really like to see some different loadouts than the default ones on the infantry, for the longer missions. And before you think I will request HMGs for everyone, what I mean is:

-More ammo
-More smoke grenades
-Backpacks for everyone?

My request stems from the fact that whenever we play a coop mission (usually adversarials don't last long enough for people to run out of ammo, at least not in my experience), even though FOLK missions are aimed to be 30mins long, any kind of sustained suppressive fire will easily chew through the 4-6 magazines that the average soldier carries. This is especially true for MAT and MMG elements. Usually (and again, it's my own experience), without wasting rounds, you reach checkpoint one, encounter some resistance, spend 1-2 magazines, reach checkpoint 2, spend another 1-2, and then the main AO of the mission is reached and a lot of people are out of ammo.

I believe that having more than 2 smoke grenades (why not 6, 2 at hand and 4 in a backpack, possibly different colours - for heli LZs too?) and more than 4-6 magazines (4 extra magazines in the backpack?) would allow for more "suppressive fire" tactics, increased use of smoke screens (especially defensively), LZ "marker" smoke and would also be less punishing if you miss your precious shots trying to kill that one ******* Takistani survivor who refuses to die.

While I realise most FOLK rules are there to promote teamplay and comms (e.g. no 3rd person view in vehicles), I think that having extra ammo and smoke grenades would add more possibilities to gameplay than currently.

Phoenix

User avatar
IceRaiser
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:38 pm
Location: IKEA

Re: Gear loadouts

Post by IceRaiser »

[...]any kind of sustained suppressive fire will easily chew through the 4-6 magazines that the average soldier carries.
That's why you have one or two soldiers in the FT shooting semi during the supression, or using the AR more for supression.

Standard F2 loadout gives the AAR 6 STANAG and two 100rd M249 boxes, giving him 180rds of usable ammo and 200rd to give to the AR.
The AR gets 5 100rd M249 boxes, giving him 500rds of usable ammo and 200 spare rounds that the AAR's carrying - giving him a total of 700(!)rds.
See the difference here?

Ok, say we enable backpacks.
The AR still gets the same loadout.
The AAR, however, gets 8 STANAG on him, two in the backpack plus two 100rd M249 boxes and one M136 rocket.
The AAR now has 300rds total, but it's still not even half of what the AAR has - backpack or no backpack...

On longer missions I tend to see backpacks enabled, which is fine.
I'm with you on the point that we really need "ammo in reserve" on longer missions. Either in backpacks or a truck (Did the two trucks in Rabbit have any ammo in them?).

The larger issue, Ice see, is that people tend to spray and pray...

User avatar
fer
Posts: 1586
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:16 am
Location: Emotional wreck

Re: Gear loadouts

Post by fer »

The most recent versions of F2 have backpacks built-in by default, however there are a few issues to be aware of for both players and hosts:
  • Only OA factions can use backpacks (so Russians, USMC and Chernarussian factions miss out
  • The parameter must be enabled by the host (we usually remember, but it's not universal)
I don't think any host deliberately withholds backpacks if they are available in the mission parameters.

If you're interested, download a copy of F2 and check out the backpack load outs for the OA factions. I think you'll like what you find.

Draakon
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:52 am

Re: Gear loadouts

Post by Draakon »

IceRaiser wrote:Did the two trucks in Rabbit have any ammo in them?
Both the Infantry MTVR's and Engineer ammo track carry ammunition for the whole squad. Maybe even the Hummers (which they do in the Cherno edition).

User avatar
fer
Posts: 1586
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:16 am
Location: Emotional wreck

Re: Gear loadouts

Post by fer »

Again, part of the challenge is that we don't always (in fact rarely) update missions to use modern versions of F2. However, for missions going forward (and made in the last 3 months or so), F2 also contains standard cargo sets for platoon vehicles. For example, the UAZ carries enough ammo to re-supply a fireteam, a truck will re-supply a squad and IFVs carry supplies as well. The mission maker must include a line in the vehicle's INIT, but these are already inserted for pre-placed vehicles.

Phoenix49
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 7:01 pm

Re: Gear loadouts

Post by Phoenix49 »

I was not aware of the limitations on which factions can have backpacks, that's a shame!

Regarding the "spray and pray" comment, I would not disagree if it wasn't for two things:
1) Most people shoot only when given the order and permission. If they are shooting at enemies and "spray and praying", chances are they are gonna die as soon as the AI decides to shoot back. People generally shoot to kill (I could be wrong).
2) Also, there is difference in my opinion between larger magazines and more magazines. You will still only have 30 shots, so most people try and make them count. But it also means that if you see enemy movement behind a tree line, you won't be afraid to suppress the entire tree line with blind fire, hoping that something hits. I think that is acceptable spray and pray conditions. You won't know if you hit anyone, if you scared them/suppressed them or not, but at least you won't regret spending a magazine that you may miss later on.

And yes, I should have clarified: this would only be a request to help squads that are cut from the main force to sustain themselves for longer in larger missions. Running back to a UAZ isn't always an option. The way I see it, when you task a squad to take out a group of EI, then another, then another. At some point, that squad can't really shoot anymore. But as Ice argued, I guess ammo management is part of the game in these cases. However, since most missions in FOLK sessions have a completely mental....uhm I mean unhealthy amount of enemies to fight, at least give the troops a chance to not hold back, shooting-wise ^^

User avatar
fer
Posts: 1586
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:16 am
Location: Emotional wreck

Re: Gear loadouts

Post by fer »

Managing your supplies is part of the challenge, and just as SLs must obtain regular head counts from FTLs, so must they require updates on ammunition levels. If a squad is running dangerously low on supplies and ordered to do something for which it is not adequately resourced, the SL should inform the CO. In missions where supply trucks are available, the CO must find a way to take the squad in question out of the line and allow them time to replenish; alternatively, there may be scavenging opportunities but those will also require time. In either case, the fact that the CO and SL are being required to manage supplies and adapt their plans to contend with the issue is part of the gameplay. To your example of a squad that has become distant from the main force / supply trucks, it's acceptable that logistics become a challenge.

Mission makers do have a role to play, however, in anticipating missions with high numbers of enemies and providing re supply vehicles or dumps.

User avatar
Ferrard Carson
Posts: 565
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:08 am

Re: Gear loadouts

Post by Ferrard Carson »

Phoenix, a few points to keep in mind:

1) Keep in mind that the mission on which you debuted Platoon Command (Running Rabbit) is an entire order of magnitude more complex than the typical Folk ARPS mission, and is supremely unfriendly to new CO's. If I had thought about this beforehand, I would have warned you off of commanding this one. I designed this mission in anticipation of a large 70-80 person, somewhat pre-planned, joint-op with other communities, hence the multitude of roles, tools, and attachments in addition to the fancy-pants Delta Force recce squad.

2) I also designed this mission knowing full-well that I was asking squads to engage MMG and battle-rifle-equipped targets from upwards of 500 meters using 5.56x45mm weapons. To kill the average dude at that range with that caliber of weapons system requires either pinpoint accuracy or some serious ammo expenditure - knowing that, I arranged for the ammo truck to be loaded to absolute bear with ammo, and the other vehicles are all loaded down with a squad's worth of munitions as well, all on top of F2 2.7.X's already generous supply of ammunition in the packs of each FTL and AAR (some of our AARs dropped their large 12-space packs for reasons unknown to me).

3) As for specifics about equipment, remember that every mission-maker has their own quirks. I tend to customize the F2 2.7.X loadouts to favor additional ammo as opposed to smokes and the like, because I hate running out of ammo, and it is a rare mission that requires a smoke signal at all, much less multiple, meaning one colored smoke per SL generally suffices. Every smoke shell is 30 less rounds of 5.56, and on the balance given our focus on fire-and-maneuver, 30 rounds is more important to me than 1 extra smoke on top of the two or three smoke shells most everyone starts with.

4) It's Folk ARPS or FA, not FOLK :coolbert:

:clint: ~ Ferrard
"Take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turnin' of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurtin' before she keels... makes her home."

Phoenix49
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 7:01 pm

Re: Gear loadouts

Post by Phoenix49 »

Thank you for all the comments and clarifications!

Regarding the ammo trucks and other squad vehicles, I think I left them behind because I wanted the elements on foot. Apparently, big mistake :P
I agree with you on the 30 bullets > 1 smoke grenade, my point was only to increase ammo/grenade count by adding backpacks to all personnel for large missions. Seeing as you had covered this by loading out the trucks (which I mistakenly left behind), we are not disagreeing!

And I'll keep the FA/Folk ARPS clarification in mind :)

Phoenix

Post Reply